Ottoman Archives show Greece has not a damn thing to do with Macedonia

23

In 1993, Turkish deputy colonel Kurmay Baskanligi and his compatriot general Erdogan Oznal coauthored a book “Macedonia is not Greek” (MAKEDONYA YUNAN DEĞİLDİR).

The book has overwhelming amount of information and historical details that Athens has absolutely nothing to do with Macedonia as a country, and even less to do with the historic name. The book uses information from the 1300s all the way to the major world wars and is not only focusing on Macedonia, but on Greece as well.

From census in every village and town during a 500 year span, to property taxes, to historic borders within the Ottoman Empire, the book shows the Macedonian borders do not change for 500 years (shown in photo above), encompassing what we now call Aegean and Pirin Macedonia.

Not a sign of “greeks” anywhere on Macedonian territory (with focus on Aegean Macedonia) for 500 years.

Although the Ottoman archives in Ankara are open to Macedonian historians, rarely does anyone in Macedonia take interest in them, reports daily Vecer.

The Ottoman archives are the only viable, thorough and recognized document for the Balkans. It is a written record that cannot be changed and dates back a whopping five centuries since the Turks managed all governing aspects on the entire peninsula as it was considered part of their country/system. Even today, some Macedonian citizens go back to these archives to prove that land belonged to their ancestors for an extended period before it was confiscated by the communists after WW2.

It is how an older lady got Krivolak, the second largest military training ground in Europe back to her family, now she is renting it out to the Macedonian army and NATO for training.

As for the “Greeks” and their claim on the name Macedonia, we can refer them to the book “Macedonia is not Greek” of their neighbors and ethnic brothers, Turkish authors Baskanligi and Oznal who detailed 81 pages of archived evidence why Athens has nothing, and never had anything to do with Macedonia.

  • Ice_Arrows

    inb4 greek drones

  • falakro
  • MACEDONIA

    Documents of the Continued Existence of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation for a period of over 3000 years http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseMacedonia/Documents.html

    • Chevalier

      You wrote those yourself?

  • Chevalier

    So, why was my comment removed? What are you afraid of? You try and bring on the internet the dictatorship and censorship that rule your country?

  • Chevalier

    So, these people had to write a book to reach the conclusion that Athens never was in Macedonia? And there are people willing to pay money to buy it?
    Am I right the Ottoman census shows what is today Greek Macedonia predominantly populated by Bulgarian farmers, Thessaloniki by Jews and Chalkidiki by Greeks? Why are these maps or censi not shown here?

  • Betty Liebowitz

    What misinformation.. The Turkish census clearly show that the southern regions (Halkidiki, Kavala and Katerina) were majority Greek throughout Ottoman times!
    Thessaloniki, Beroia and Serres had mixed populations but again more Greeks than (Slav) Macedonians.

    It is only the areas of Florina and Kastoria that were majority Macedonian.. And yes they shouldn’t be part of Greece. But you cannot claim entire Macedonia because of this!

    And furthermore places further east such as Thrace and Istanbul had large Greek populations..
    Are you suggesting there were Greeks to the south of Macedonia and to the east, but not the linking region in between? Ridiculous!

    • Goran Z

      All the towns(including Solun)and villages that got their name changed by the so called Greeks, they all belonged to the Macedonian people.Greece, Bulgaria,Albania, Serbia and so on, they all come thousands years after Macedonia. which territory was divided in 1913 ?!? From the beginning of times WE are only calling our self Macedonians and how many names your people(and others) have for yourself ? …Betty please, don’t try to sound too smart, we all know who and what we are!

      • Betty Liebowitz

        I think you don’t even know the history of your people!!
        Just blindly follow what your extremist nationalists tell you..
        You speak a Slavic language, arrived in Macedonia in the 6th century (1300 years ago).
        Self identified as Bulgarian until the 19th century. It was in the 1850-1870s that a Macedonian ethnicity separated from Bulgarian .. Its not according me, this is fact! Check Wikipedia instead of your extremists..
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonians_(ethnic_group)

        And as for the ancient Macedonians, they spoke a Greek language..
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonians

        The Greeks didn’t suddenly appear in Macedonia in 1913.. They have been there the whole time in southern areas Halkidiki, Kavala, Thessaloniki, etc.
        Check Ottoman census it shows more Greeks than Bulgarians in these southern areas (and yes at the time “Macedonians” were Bulgarians)
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salonica_Vilayet

        The name belongs to BOTH peoples, not monopolised by one group.

        • Zagor Te Nay

          I was debating is I should reply again, ‘cuz it’s obvious that you are a troll and there is no point reasoning with you for some reasons (gee I don’t know, maybe your parents land is not really theirs, it’s stolen from a rightful owners, the Macedonians and give it to them when they were brought from Turkey and where not), so I am just going to live this link because you are very interested in facts, right? P.S move on, you sound ridicules, Macedonia and Macedonians have nothing to do with Greece or any other country or people, in fact we are the grand parents of many other nations!https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506?dopt=Citation

      • Michael Peranovic

        Got your history all wrong buddy. You were probably eating cornflakes one morning and pulled out the history book from the bottom of the pack. Your claims are way off the truth.

        • Zagor Te Nay

          Can you point out wich part I got it wrong. Either way I am not going to debate with you about ancient history when yours is beginning in what 18-19 century (although your people’s roots are Macedonian) And I hate cornflakes(obviously you love them)

          • Michael Peranovic

            If your claiming my history begun in the 18th to 19th century then so does yours because you are Slavic. You are not Macedonian of Macedon, they were ancient Greeks.The Greeks did not migrate to Macedonia thousands of years later because they were already there on it’s homelands.Sparta, Athens, Crete, Troy, Arkadia, Macedon and so on, They were all Greeks. Alexander the great fought for the glory of all Greek nations and he made that clear to all he conquered. He wrote & spoke the ancient Greek Language and was also a student of Aristotle, artifacts & written scripts of that time proove this. The Slavs came from the North into Macedonia 800 yrs after Alexander the greats death & they didn’t have an alphabet for a further 400 yrs.Tito is your Slavic Alexander . The alphabet & language in which you speak is same dialect that of the Bulgarians and that is your history of origin. But that’s not acceptable for people like yourself, so you steal the identity & all its history from the ancient Greek Macedonians and claim it as yours, artifacts, scripts, scrolls & history books prove the identity of Macedonia & all it’s Greek origins for it is written clear as day. Be proud of your Bulgarian culture and history because that’s all you have so dont shame yourselves with denial. If you can’t accept that then your brainwashing in your schools must be pretty high tek shit.

          • Zagor Te Nay

            Oh you petty, bitter little soul everybody in our heck of the woods that your people are mix with 50% Gypsies DNA. My people call them self Macedonians 5000 thousand years ago and we will continue to do so despite the poison from our idiotic neighbours. Alexander and Philip they kill Greeks(or whatever they where calling them self at that time) Aristotle and Homer for that matter where also Macedonians.As for all that Slavic stuff(you don’t even know what that means) versus Ancient Macedonian, I will leave one link for you from a third party, it is scientific conformation …enjoy oh you ever wonder why the original name and until this day the rest of the world call the city of BEOgrad -BELgrade!
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ujBXeEXl-Q

          • Michael Peranovic

            The Greek nations of that time never got along with one another so they fought against each other, Macedonia included. The links you talk about are written by your mob it’s all propaganda garbage fake news for clowns like yourself to believe that iits true. These links have no merit. You refuse to look up the real history because the truth hurts so you read story book links to wash your pain of not knowing who you are away. Technically your right that you are Macedonian by birth only and not
            of the decent of the ancient Greek Macedonians. You can call the Serbs whatever you want because you share their history genes and bloodlines.So your calling yourself a gypsy to. You are seriously a brainwashed deluded nutcase. SAY NO MORE.

          • Zagor Te Nay

            Here you go one more link same like the previous one it has nothing to do with my “mafia” (if you were not so blind with ignorance and jealousy to see it) . By the way you are supporting so much the greeks because you both share a practise of steeling and fabricating history ‘бем ти дупе српско! (Car Dushan and his son Stefan, Sv, Sava, Justinian and others from the Macedonian dynasty, Krale Marko, George Kastriot….)
            Here is the link, educate your self, reserch where the name Serv/bia comes from, where your alphabet and religion come from…I have nothing more to say to you:
            ps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11260506

          • Zagor Te Nay

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            Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb;57(2):118-27.

            HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks.

            Arnaiz-Villena A1, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gómez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martínez-Laso J.

            Author information

            Abstract

            HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the “older” Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the “older” Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

            PMID: 11260506

            [Indexed for MEDLINE]

            Publication type, MeSH terms, Substances

            Publication type

            Research Support, Non-U.S. Gov’t

            MeSH terms

            Africa, Northern

            Gene Frequency

            Genetics, Population*

            Genotype

            Greece

            HLA Antigens/genetics*

            HLA-A Antigens/genetics

            HLA-B Antigens/genetics

            HLA-DQ Antigens/genetics

            HLA-DQ beta-Chains

            HLA-DR Antigens/genetics

            HLA-DRB1 Chains

            Humans

            Linkage Disequilibrium

            Macedonia (Republic)

            Mediterranean Region

            Polymorphism, Genetic*

            Substances

            HLA Antigens

            HLA-A Antigens

            HLA-B Antigens

            HLA-DQ Antigens

            HLA-DQ beta-Chains

            HLA-DQB1 antigen

            HLA-DR Antigens

            HLA-DRB1 Chains

            LinkOut – more resources

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          • Michael Peranovic

            The poison comes from a small group of extremist idiots & your one of them. By the way it’s “neck of the woods”

          • Michael Peranovic

            Your remarks & statements are that of a racist So who has a little bitter soul.

          • Michael Peranovic

            It’s all 3rd party scientific propaganda.

          • Michael Peranovic

            I have good friends that are slav Macedonians & they all said that it’s people like you that make them look foolish and uneducated when they read your comments.

  • Methos

    Credibility of Oznal refuted here:
    https://ojs.lib.uom.gr/index.php/BalkanStudies/article/view/2802/2826
    He mentions Macedonians instead of mentioning Bulgarians.

  • George

    This article is plain ridiculous. Ottoman records arewhat show there was NO SUCH THING AS “ETHNIC MACEDONIANS” under the Ottomans. Furthermore there was no “Macedonia” region under the Ottomans as this article bizarrely claims. . The area was split up among Turkish Villeyets in what the Ottomans called Rumelia… a reference to the prior Greek speaking Roman state.